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[TA]Assimilator1
2007-05-28 12:02:21
lol
[TA]amd.borg
2007-05-29 07:45:30
lol!  Hey Stephen, any news on when the stats will be back up?
laurenu2
2007-05-29 08:19:05
I think he is still on Holiday !(*_*)!  NARN NARN NARN
Pascal
2007-05-29 09:11:39
I am waiting for any update, because I miss many particle time steps.  All my simuations from client version 4.3 are away.  What's up?
Independence
2007-05-29 11:54:30
1157 Files on my Muon1 FTP Server.  Stephen this is a big download for you
Stephen Brooks
2007-05-29 12:34:27
Hi,

Sorry for the delay - I was looking at the total over the weekend and wondered "why is it still only 30 million results?" It turned out the stats script was waiting for user input to verify ONE rejected checksum, because during the rebuild I'd put it to "safe" mode so it doesn't suddenly go and delete MB of results if there is an error.  Anyway, it's now resumed its crunch through and with any luck the next refresh of the stats should be much closer to its original state, though I still owe LaurenU2 a 600MB-ish file, which I'll merge later.
Stephen Brooks
2007-05-29 12:55:51
48 million now.  That's a bit more like it.  Now it's downloading a load off the FTP servers.
[DPC]ZMT~Mmikie
2007-05-29 14:17:53
Stats looks at first site oke.... maybe laurenu2 is missing some
Fozzie
2007-05-29 14:50:19
I'm still missing 20+ million
Fozzie
2007-05-29 14:53:49
I'm still missing 20+ million and Free-DC are down 70+ million
laurenu2
2007-05-29 14:57:46
I think there is still a lot of outstanding points missing. 
I will have to check our records but I think off hand Free-DC
is still close to 100 mil short
laurenu2
2007-05-29 20:54:29
Yes alot missing here is a snapshot of the top ten team just befor your server pulldown

Team ==========================Mpts
Dutch Power Cows ===============1,516,975,386
Free-DC.org ===================1,307,290,386
Team Anandtech ================1,249,123,512
None ?  =======================669,791,444
ARS Technica - Team Atomic Milkshake ==556,217,580
SETI.Germany ==================312,689,991
Romulus2 =====================296,730,748
US-Distributed ==================245,852,716
Overclockers Australia =============201,918,241
Team Ninja ====================162,234,228

And this what they are 15 days later Your getting back there Stephen
but you still have a long way to go just to get back to where we were at 15 days ago

Overall
Team Mpts
Dutch Power Cows ================1,528,029,294
Free-DC.org ====================1,261,574,672
Team Anandtech =================1,261,366,054
None?  ======================== 669,120,710
ARS Technica - Team Atomic Milkshake ==== 569,243,979
SETI.Germany ====================312,689,991
Romulus2 ====================== 299,223,820
US-Distributed ====================243,612,068
Overclockers Australia =============== 205,090,053
Team Ninja ======================162,336,755

Hope this helps


laurenu2
2007-05-29 20:58:06
here is a link to the old snapshot of the top 100 users

http://stats.free-dc.org/new/allusers.php?proj=dpad3
HaloJones
2007-05-29 21:44:02
Mine seem OK
AETiglathPZ
2007-05-30 04:13:20
Mine seem a bit too high.  Seems I gain bit of points!!!

AETiglathPZ [US-Distributed] before15,872,196 after 21,200,493
AEpocalypse [www.2CPU.com] before 15,415,341 after 20,807,872

I know I haven't crunched that much in the past week.  And mostly for 2CPU since I was trying to even out accounts.  There should be a slight gain on the US-D(AET) while my 2CPU side(AEP) should be closer to AET since I was trying to even them out.
laurenu2
2007-05-30 06:01:04
Oh so you got part of the 50,000,000 + points missing from condor's account

Darn computer only know what you tell them
AETiglathPZ
2007-05-30 17:32:20
"Oh so you got part of the 50,000,000 + points missing from condor's account"

No, I think something got double counted on that last recount.  If you look at the spred between those two accounts.

Think AET should be around the 15.9 range while AEP might be around 15.6. This is a guess based off my production and the new tally.  Think some phase-rob something got doublecounted along the way.
laurenu2
2007-05-31 01:27:12
Stephen What is going on here it seems like things are getting screwed up more day by day.
What is going wrong here, and Why is it taking So long.  Did you not do a backup just before you took your server down?
It is now getting into the 3rd week and still nothing is right except for " HaloJones"
DO you need help to get things working again ?
A Lot Of members are getting vary Upset with this going on as long as it has
DO you see a end to this?  if so When?
K`Tetch
2007-05-31 06:11:57
Well, a lot might be, I for one don't care.  I do this for the project, not some stats to boast about.  As long as my results are parsed, and added into the results servers, to help gnerate samplefiles, i don't care.  It really doesn't bother to me if the stats tables show i've only done 1/10th the work it says i've done, because in the grand scale of things, to me thats not as important as improving the evolutionary breed of the design.  That is after all the point of the project.

Also think of this - whilst Stephen is busy making sure that the work you did 4 months or whenever ago is being added onto your totals, what hes not doing is working on the code for the next version.  So, instead of improving the project and working to the future, hes working on stuff whch frankly makes no difference to the mechanics of the project. 

Might also want to remmeber that Stephen is one person, doing this mostly alone, and has other things he has to do for his job as well.  I wonder how many people can match his level of physics knowledge, AND his programming skill, ANd run a project of this size and keep it running to the point where there's around 50 MILLION results to keep track of, as well as write papers, attend confrences, and even mark papers?  Could you do all that?  Remember, this is cutting edge physics stuff. 
Fozzie
2007-05-31 08:02:17
Well K'Tech I think that pretty much puts you firmly in the minority.  I care a hell of a alot that the stats show the correct level of effort the teams have put in.  Withut the competition there would be significantly less participation.  I know I have produced a load more work and the project stats must show this along with all my team mates AND all the other teams participants.  We all have our little battles in the stats whilst we do this project, it keeps it interesting.

So the crux of the matter is this must be fixed and the stats perfectly restored or the popularity of the project will not recover.  I, for one, have swung my farm elsewhere and if this is not resolved they will stay that way.
[TA]amd.borg
2007-05-31 08:02:43
True, BUT if it weren't for the stats I'd have one pc on this and would've hoped for the best.  If there were actual results, I'm saying there aren't, but results that one could actually see being directly applied in the real world, maybe the stats wouldn't have been as importend.  Getting something back for everything we go through is great.. getting you're name on the boards and in the stats.  If the project didn't have stats, there wouldn't be more than a handfull of people doin in, that's the reality and with that said, the people's frunstration is justified.

I know Stephen is one person and no one is expecting him to do miracles, just to get the thing going that's keeping most people on this project, the stats.
[TA]amd.borg
2007-05-31 08:08:40
How TF do you edit posts here???????  Anyway correcting a sentence..

If there were actual results, I'm NOT saying there aren't, but results that one could actually see being directly applied in the real world, maybe the stats wouldn't have been as importend.
Stephen Brooks
2007-05-31 11:50:53
Well that's as close as the stats are going to get, any other results appear to be gone for good - lost in the network copy.  I also have to write a paper for a conference at the end of the month so it looks like there won't be much more time to fix this.

However, I will use LaurenU2's link to the old stats to restore anyone in the top 50 to where they were before, by just adding some points on to their PhaseRotD score.  So, on that (arbitrary) basis:

Fozzie[Free-DC.org] gets 20289269.4 Mpts
[ARS]GOD gets 11493172.6 Mpts
BOHICASETI gets 7100551.7 Mpts
Herb[Romulus2] gets 6514906 Mpts
Condor[Free-dc.org] gets 48291888.9 Mpts
[TA]compudog gets 857021.9 Mpts
kitsura gets 5779.7 Mpts

I think that should cover the largest losses at least.
RGtx
2007-05-31 12:00:11
Just a minor quibble.  Every stats update, for myself and for others, claims "0 hours since last active", yet correctly?, no increment in points.  Those who only recently joined the project are not manifesting this behaviour.  Is the stats generator still suffering from indigestion?
Stephen Brooks
2007-05-31 12:02:10
As for amd.borg's thing about the "results" of the project being visible - what matters is that pink line - the muon % yield - on the timeseries graphs.  That is the score of the best design in the current "gene pool" of designs.  Because of the sample files mechanism, it's rapidly spread to most computers on the network, so it's difficult to destroy based on only some individual stats losses.  It is also very likely an achievement of many member's computers together.  In fact, I've been logging who has broken the successive records on that purple graph; I might publish that on the website at some stage, you might find it interesting.
laurenu2
2007-05-31 15:07:11
Stephen I am sorry but the way you are dealing with this Makes you wonder on the validity of this project.

The little guys here are as important as the top 50 or 100 I did not give that link to use as a restore backup.

I gave it to show you that the stats were not right yet..

I guess you do not make backups of all the results that we spend tens of thousands of dollars to produce for you.

We all trusted you to do this, and I must say you let us down Big time and we wasted our time effort and money

Producing all the work for this project. 

Stephen Tell us what happens tomorrow when fire hits your office does the DPAD

project get washed away by a fire hose?
Stephen Brooks
2007-05-31 15:22:30
Well, they were backed up, that's how I got the original ~60% of the database up to its current 99%. The other 1% was overwritten while I was testing out scripts that would merge the two copies of the database with each other and they didn't work right initially.
RGtx
2007-05-31 15:37:28
Stephen, if you can find the time, could we please have the graphs updated, it will be interesting to see if the long pause in updating the samplefiles has adversely affected the slope of the purple (magenta?) graph on decayrotB.
[DPC] Eclipse~Lord Alderaan
2007-05-31 17:18:05
I agree with K'Tech on this one.

Besides the stats aren't completely gone.  There is a 1% discrepancy.  Competition isn't going to disappear just because the stats aren't exactly correct to before.  Yes those affected might feel hurt and/or frustrated and might even leave this project but the 'So the crux of the matter is this must be fixed and the stats perfectly restored or the popularity of the project will not recover.' statement is obviously exaggerated.  Even if everybody affected would leave this project would still keep going. 

Something went wrong when testing merge scripts.  These things can happen.  With proper measures it might have been prevented or it might have been corrigible.  Thats the only mistake Stephen made and we don't even know the exact circumstances.  In the end it is one person who is running this as just one of his daily activities.  And mistakes could have happened even if this was run by a dedicated team.  In my opinion bailing out of the whole project because of this doesn't show good character.

Laurenu2 its not that he chose to care about only the top 100 stats.  You were the one who provided him with a list of 'just' the top 100 people.  If he had chose to not correct anything people might have been complaining too.  At least he corrected obvious incorrect stats. 

And I agree with you that not making backups would have been bad project management.  But you do realize that even with a backup if Stephens office burns down tomorrow the results between the last backup and the fire are lost and there is nothing anybody could do about that.  Backups are just a measure to minimize damage and they don't guarantee zero losses and this is another case that shows that.
dragonorta[XS]
2007-05-31 17:24:18
So the 5.7 million one of my teammates lost and the 3.5 million that I lost are gone for good? 

That certainly is a souring proposition. 
[DPC] Eclipse~Lord Alderaan
2007-05-31 17:52:55
Yes and No.

As Stephen said results you and your friend generated are not really wasted because of how the best design / sample files system works.  The hard work isn't gone but it is missing from your stats.
AETiglathPZ
2007-05-31 18:09:14
Laurenu2- "Stephen I am sorry but the way you are dealing with this Makes you wonder on the validity of this project"

From what I've read, seems only the stats server got FUBARed.  The actual results are still good.  The actual results are the project, not the stats.


Laurenu2- "guess you do not make backups of all the results that we spend tens of thousands of dollars to produce for you."

And we did this to as a investment?  I wonder how many lines of coke, hookers, and beer I could of got with my investment.


Laurenu2- "We all trusted you to do this, and I must say you let us down Big time and we wasted our time effort and money"

You ruined my life Stephen.  But then again, probably saved money that I would have spent on rehab and non-mentionable medical treatments to groin areas.


Laurenu2- "Stephen, Tell us what happens tomorrow when fire hits your office does the DPAD project get washed away by a fire hose?"

I believe Stephen probably learned the hard way about data recovery and disaster recovery from this.  He should hire the Interdictor!
http://interdictor.livejournal.com/



Hope you see my own take on this as non-seriously as I do Laurenu2. You do bring up the need of proper feedback(stats) and the psychology of a cruncher.  We crunch for the project but validate are participation in it with feedback.  Ya, it's a silly arbitrary number on the Interweb but it keeps us crunching.  It makes us want to strive for the Gold medal(or silver, bronze, mithril,etc) in this special olympics for geeks.


Now Stephen, your kindoff screwed now.  This is a learning experience and you learned the hard way.  Now the question is, How do we recover?
You probably have a full plate of other more important things to do then worry about arbitrary numbers on the Interweb.  You also want to do this as efficiently(your time) as possible.  A couple proposals:

Option 1(THe Hard Pill): Just use the last known good stats and proceed from there.  We all suck wind together with a couple weeks of lost production.  But at least it would be accurate as of a couple weeks ago.

Option 2(The Hard Pill with a chaser): Use the last know good stats and add some arbitrary number to the active crunchers(last 100 hours?) based on a percentage(1% to 3%?) and then proceed from there.


These two options both suck, but there fair and efficient.
[TA]amd.borg
2007-05-31 18:16:31
[DPC] Eclipse~Lord Alderaan, about your'e statement "''So the crux of the matter is this must be fixed and the stats perfectly restored or the popularity of the project will not recover.' statement is obviously exaggerated.  Even if everybody affected would leave this project would still keep going"

Sure it would keep going, but take away the top 10 producers, since it's the bigger producers who lost the most and work done in a month could turn to work done in a year.
[TA]GLeeM
2007-05-31 22:05:13
Is this where I report a shortfall in my stats?

I am at least 3,538,613 short, that number is the amount I know for sure because of amd.borg's stats thread over at Anandtech DC forum.

I sent in at least two files that would have been well over 100,000 each after that, I don't know if these got in the current score.

Thanks in advance!
[XS]riptide
2007-05-31 23:33:00
Man this is bad.  Real bad.  Justy6 when I got a good few members on the team crunching for us after starting a very long thread about DPAD, and all this happens.  BTW DragonOrta above is referring to me.  This is worthless.  The least you owe us to be able to manage a DC project by keeping sufficient backups and becoming sufficiently competent in script writing.
[XS]riptide
2007-05-31 23:39:42
And just to be clear about this Stephen.  This isn't about the results as much as it is about your Lack of sense of Duty to us.  You've neglected that...

And I'll always remember when you said after the last time.... and I'll paraphrase you: --- You would be better off moving to another project for the next few weeks ---

Well... I might just take your advice.
[XS]riptide
2007-05-31 23:42:30
And while I'm still in the mood.. I feel bad for the big guys aswell, the Larenu's and pals from Free-DC that put so much into this (much more than I ever could at this time) and the other big teams (DPC) which I'm not quite so familiar with.
AETiglathPZ
2007-06-01 00:43:35
[XS]riptide- "Man this is bad.  Real bad"

Um no, Server exploding and taking out Stephens legs.  Dogs and cats living together.  Me catching a viral infection from 10-dollar pleasurable service.  That would be bad.  This sucks.  Ya, I wanted to push DPAD too.  To bad, lesson learned the hard way.


[XS]riptide- "The least you owe us to be able to manage a DC project by keeping sufficient backups and becoming sufficiently competent in script writing."

O ya, like us old timers haven't seen issues with other projects.  Remember SETI-classic, geeze, talk about worthless stats.  How many fake WU counted.  Should also note that SETI-classic had a bigger staff too.


[XS]riptide- "Lack of sense of Duty to us.  You've neglected that..."

Ya Stephen, are you going to perform Seppuku or are we going to have to bring out the ninjas?


[XS]riptide- "I feel bad for the big guys aswell"


Ya, sucks, we lost a couple weeks in reliable stats.  Ya, that was money in electricity and possible production in another project lost.  Yep, for guys that spend tons of money on arbitrary numbers on the interweb that's bad. 

Me myself, I could have put my machines into RC5-72 for a final push at some grand arbitrary number.  So what if all it does is shit out some code.  It's the stats that count right.



I think anybody into DC computing or has run a DC project is pretty aware of how important feedback is to the person crunching that project.  It's like a little thank you for you effort.  Ya stats are screwed up and Stephen learned a lesson the hard way.  Sucks, we get over it and move on.


O ya, if you that much of a stats junky.  Get out now.  Play Runescape or something.  Look I'm 5,723 place in Smithing with a total level of 1184. Believe me, it's cheaper than running a DC farm and whipping some noob out in the wild a bit more exciting then watching the stats pile up.
[XS]riptide
2007-06-01 01:25:07
AETiglathPZ: Listen pal Why don' you quote me more "This isn't about the results as much as it is about your Lack of sense of Duty to us." Results I mean points/stats.

BTW I don't and never have run Seti, because I don't consider it of any use.

I ran this project because I was trained as a Physicist in college and have a great interest in particle accelerators.  My latest bit of interest is watching the progress on detecting the Higgs Boson.

I ahave't heard of servers explode, cats and dogs can live happily together, and you cathing 'The Virus' ... well... -dollar pleasurable service?  Ha!  Now we're not at the park rides now are we!




[TA]GLeeM
2007-06-01 02:43:52
[TA]GLeeM - "I am at least 3,538,613 short"
This may not seem like much to some of you, but it is one third of my score - to put it in perspective, how would you feel to lose about one year's worth of your score?!?

Other than the ease of running the client, the ONLY reason I do this project is to help my TeAm.
AETiglathPZ
2007-06-01 03:10:42
Yes [XS]riptide, I will quote you more. 
"This isn't about the results as much as it is about your Lack of sense of Duty to us." Results I mean points/stats.

So what is this sense of duty?  Let's start back to projects of yesteryear.  Way back, before the "Dawn of the New Millenium," there existed a project that we now refer to as SETI-Classic.  The point was to use the EXTRA computing cycles of our computers to hunt down and exterminate those aliens that we watched on X-Files before they did likewise.  To keep track of who did what, the guys at SETI-Classic provided feedback to the user in terms of point per Work Unit accomplished.

Eventually, one personal home computer crunching SETI became two personal home computers crunching SETI.  Those people with computers crunching SETI started to talk to each other.  Eventualy, they started to form teams of like minded users around a common interest.  Some teams formed around radio personalities(Team Art Bell- motto:"I crunch while I hear a guy yap on the radio", some around a chick with a webcam(Team JennyCam- motto:"I crunch one handed", a hardware site(2CPU- motto:"I crunch to see how long my BP6 will last before it blows it's caps", and pure nationalism(Team SETI USA-motto:"We sure as heck not gonna let Team Le-France kick our buts".

As soon as teams formed, they competed.  Teams recruited and stole members.  Members built more powerful and numerous machines.  Skilled members built add-on programs, stat websites, and teamclan websites.  Eventually one person from one team would cheerfully heckle another person on another team.  And then they competed to be the best at crunching SETI.

The method of answering "who was the best team?' also answered the question of "Who was the best cruncher on the team?" Eventually, other questions of who was the uber-crunchers of what was answered by a one system of feedback. 

The feedback was the assigning of a point to a work unit performed.

Eventually, SETI-classic was joined and replaced(SETI-BOINC) by new projects that provided feedback.  There were new projects to crunch, crack, fold or whatever.  Eventually someone decided to make the Uber-stat page.  The DCR.

And so began the era of the Geek Special Olympics.



Well that was long winded.  So anyway, what the hell does this have to do with a "sense of duty" in providing points?
It's just a little history that's all on how this system came to be.

Anyway, these DC-Teams became uber not-for-profit crunching organizations.  And like small contributers or rich bitches, want to see feedback on there contribution.  Like a person who drops a couple bucks in a "Katrina Fund," some just want to see on the news of some progress coming from there contribution.  And also like the rich bitches and there endowments, some want to see there name up on top of the contributor list above another rich bitch.

O hell, It's not like Stephen has to actually name the new server after Team Anandtech or something.  Or the mouse, the official "Fozzie" mouse.  Jeeze, we just want some simple stats and Stephen screwed that up.
AETiglathPZ
2007-06-01 03:58:05
Hey [XS]riptide, I am very well aware how stats are important and how Stephen screwed up.  Yep, it sucks.  He dropped the ball on the whole stats thing.

So lets look at the recovery options now.  The stats are screwed.  The project is in jeorpardy.  blah, blah.

So what do we want Stephen to do now?  Do we actually expect him to spend excessive hours of time the next three weeks trying to fix the stats from the previous 3 weeks?  Do we want to rant some more on how he screwed up? 

It's, um, pointless to do so now.

Anyway, Stephen has a OPTION 3: Yep, still sucky.
Take the last know good stats.  Put them up on the webpage as a final score of everybody's contribution.  And have everybody start over from 0 with new stats.

With this Stephen, you can clear out the dead wood who haven't done anything for you lately and provide the opportunity for new people not trying to have to clear years of legacy stats.

Your going to lose people.  Probably lose allot of people temporarily.  But hey, there is a www.dc-vault.com out there and the teams are eventually going to come back.




As for my background [XS]riptide, I started crunching SETI-Classic back as TiglathPZ of the mini-team Apocalypse(not related to Apocalypse in current classic database) before crunching for 2CPU and US-D because I like being involved in the greater DC-subculture.

I built a pretty competitive farm for awhile to crunch SETI-Classic while I was studying for my Comptia A+ certification.

I did not find an illegal alien using my computer.  But they haven't invaded yet either so I believe I did my job well.

I stopped crunching SETI-anything because there were numerous medical related projects like Folding@Home out there.

I like crunching DPAD because I can test out temporary or old machines and get feedback shortly, in stats, from those machines.

I'm addicted to stats too.  I'm just willing to put it into a different perspective.

Stephen did fear his server exploding(and also wanted a new toy), I had to sneek in a Ghostbusters reference, and I am wondering where these park rides might be incase I need servicing!

Yep, [TA]GLeeM, you lost allot of points produced.  I gained allot of points not produced.  Stats are broken.  Some people are upset.  What can we do now?

laurenu2
2007-06-01 06:52:14
AETiglathPZ
I think you are making mater's worse by picking fights here.
We all are entitled to feel the way we do about this . To try to nit-pic apart what people post here to Stephen is not your job.
you are not a mod here, nor have any right to speak on Stephens behalf.

Please if you must continue to post here , please consider there may be children reading this
and I for one Do Not want to read " lines of coke, hookers, and beer " that has Noting to do with this project
And should NOT be in your posts

And Also what happened to you on other project is of No importance to us here, Just Write a letter to yourself. 
It will be better then you posting the same crap over and over again here.

AETiglathPZ
2007-06-01 08:07:57
Actually Laurenu2, I'm not trying to pick personal fight's here.  Even though I respond to negative opinions about the project and it's coordinator, this is not personal.  This is a project disagreement.  And when this disagreement has exhausted itself, I will not feel any personal ill toward the contributor of an opposing opinion or there fellow teamates.  Or if my fellow teamates having different opinions, them either.  Well, unless someone calls me a @#&*%!  or something.

You have an opinion, I have an opinion.  Everybody has an opinion.  I stated mine, not Stephens.

I am not a mod here.  I never claimed to be a mod here.  I can choose an ideal to support and provide my ideas just like you provide yours.
We can peacefully disagree.  After all, this is just a form of community service or charity.  Hopefully, my odd compare-and-contrast with charity organizations and behavior didn't get misunderstood as a personal attack.  It was meant sound more tongue and cheek than a statement of some wacked out convoluted pseudo-socialist non-sense with a us-vs-them attitude.

So far, I have seen you post some pretty logical questions.  You have also questioned the project and how it was a possible waste of "tens of thousands of dollars" in time and money.  If you question the project on it's home forum than I can question the contributors to the project.  I crunch on this too so my opinion is also valid.

You are right about the language.  I can get by expressing my opinion while posting more PG here.  I'll keep it toned down just incase someone minor accidently wanders in here of a sometimes Rated R or X on Myspace or such.

What I experienced on other projects relates to how I view this project in the overall DC scene and it specifically.  I recognize familiar names here from other projects.  You call my opinion crap, I call your posting of "tens of thousands of dollars to produce for you" lost in 3 weeks worth of stats non-sense.

What were you thinking of doing?  Writing the investment off on your taxes.

As for posting here not being my job.  Neither is it yours.  We both do not get paid to crunch this or post here.  To my understanding, Stephen is the only one here with the actual job related to this project.
[DPC] Eclipse~Lord Alderaan
2007-06-01 15:36:36
[TA]amd.borg on 'Sure it would keep going, but take away the top 10 producers, since it's the bigger producers who lost the most and work done in a month could turn to work done in a year.'
I agree with laurenu2 that 'The little guys here are as important as the top 50 or 100'. Just because some can crunch a lot of Mpts every day with their farms doesn't mean the little guy at home accounts to nothing.  As far as I know my team DPC which is (for now ) still in the lead in this project consists mainly of little guys...

Its obvious there are some people unsatisfied and some people who take this lightly.  Some voice it seriously, some with a bit of humor and maybe a a bit of unwanted explicit talk.  Everybody has the right to speak his opinion, being it complaining about someones actions, defending that person and/or criticize the complainers.  No need to get personal and tell someone what he can and cannot do or call someones opinion crap or this thread turns into a flame war instead of a respectful collision of opinions.
[TA]amd.borg
2007-06-01 15:57:50
Alderaan, I never said the little guys aren't as important, I said, if the project loses crunchers, less results will be returned and more so if big producers move on.  I can't put it any simpler then that sorry.
[XS]riptide
2007-06-01 21:51:19
I'll have no quarells wuth you AETiglatz.  But loose the gutter talk.  Minors do not accidently come here... I know 14 year olds on our broader DC team.  People like them come to Project forums not accidently but by intent... just like us.

The small producers are just as important as the bigger ones... why?  Because very often small producers become LARGE producers.

My final argument/proposition to the project staff is this :- When time permits, show us CONCRETE steps that you have taken that will ensure that this may NEVER happen again... or at the very minimum.. that its chances of it happening are so remote.. it's possibility would be akin to finding life with SETI project.
RGtx
2007-06-01 23:25:04
[But lose the gutter talk]?  Guess who posted these two comments on this very forum:

"Well rumour has it Laurenu2 sells his body for Hardware.  :rofl: Part time Giggillo for the 'older' ladies "
"Yes wmikrut.  Maybe he lost his virginity after a few pints down the local boozer... ha ha!  :rofl:" ?

Yes, our puritan friend, [XS]riptide.

Stephen Brooks
2007-06-01 23:33:45
Er yes, I'd just like to direct anyone just wanting to reclaim some lost points and not interested in the current argument over to the other thread in this forum.
Stephen Brooks
2007-06-01 23:40:02
--[My final argument/proposition to the project staff is this :- When time permits, show us CONCRETE steps that you have taken that will ensure that this may NEVER happen again... or at the very minimum.. that its chances of it happening are so remote.. it's possibility would be akin to finding life with SETI project.]--

Not going to happen.  You know how you can get a Hotmail account for free but those companies that guarantee "seven nines of reliability" charge $1000/month or something?  There's a reason for that: it takes people a lot of time and effort to make such systems failsafe.  I'm not going to direct my efforts in that direction.  You may be happier with a BOINC project as I think they have a whole team of people maintaining that, so it's more likely to be "production quality".
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