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| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 11:21:58 | I did another duplicate-check and removed all the repeats caused in the last week. Here is the log file. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| [Ars]kenlow 2002-11-06 11:59:57 | Does your dupe checker only check for dupes within each individual account or is it across the whole database? |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 12:20:07 | It's only within individual accounts at the moment. The problem with checking the whole database is - if a results belongs to two people, how can I tell which one deserves the credit?  If you're worried about team-scores being enlarged, then I could try doing a sweep that counts the unique particles within each team and compare those scores to the reported ones. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| NicJA 2002-11-06 12:30:31 | whats going on stephen?? ive lost results from today when i KNOW there were no duplicates. my score has dropped and i dont see the results i sent after 5pm GMT, which was quite a few!! |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 12:48:26 | Your log says: [DPC]Clan Delft 155 results 23 repeated 0 bestN left in (14.839% bad) I think that means Clan_Delft have 155 results and 23 dupes, so we have now 132 results... But... One hour ago we had submitted 419 points at least... So how can you log say we have 155 BEFORE the check already..? http://muon.qik.nl/index.php?user=[DPC]Clan%20Delft This is the site that says that we have yesterday 419 points. http://scriptdev.homeip.net/reader.php These results are from my proxy server... Who checks duplicates immediately en delte them if they're already in the database. |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-06 13:28:14 | Do we need to resend our points? Our proxy saved all ftp'ed files. No problem to send again. Another question: how is it possible to have a muon quality of: 0,000000. At this moment we have two kind of this points. first one here second here Small bug??? [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 13:41:01 | Some of your "missing points" are probably still on my server currently. Any idea what,210 Not Understoodin FTP means? I'll try retrieving the results a couple more times. Right now it seems to come across an error half-way through checking the version dirs. Also I think I'll make it check the version dirs in reverse order, so it's more likely to do the up-to-date one correctly. A muon percentage of 0.000000% indicates that 0.000000% of the muons survived until the other end of the accelerator. EDIT - drat here it is again: 500 34 not understood.This could be the root of the problem, but I don't know if it means someone is hacking the server, or the server's just sick, or what. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 13:45:03 | But the 419 results whore yesterday on your server already and now the log tells me thhere are only 155... |
| dcDragon 2002-11-06 13:48:21 | quote: assuming it's very unlikely that 2 people would return the same results, *that* would make for some very interesting reading... |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 13:49:42 | But i don't know what it is.. But i have an idea for you with duplicate results... What I uses on my proxy, before new results are going into the db I first check of that result isn't there already. Is it there already don't put it into the db isn't it there than do. So you can check the whole db and don't have the problem from which person the results are, they are from the first person... I hope you can do something with this idea? If the problem is fixed I think I'll sent all my results and probably you can then check only Clan_Delft on dupes... |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-06 13:51:41 | i thik it means that ftp commando 210 not an existing commando is. But i am not a ftp expert These are the possible 200 commandos in ftp 200 Series The requested action has been successfully completed 200 Command okay. 202 Command not implemented, superfluous at this site. 211 System status, or system help reply. 212 Directory status. 213 File status. 214 Help message.On how to use the server or the meaning of a particular non-standard command. This reply is useful only to the human user. 215 NAME system type. Where NAME is an official system name from the list in the Assigned Numbers document. 220 Service ready for new user. 221 Service closing control connection. 225 Data connection open; no transfer in progress. 226 Closing data connection. Requested file action successful (for example, file transfer or file abort). 227 Entering Passive Mode (h1,h2,h3,h4,p1,p2). 230 User logged in, proceed. Logged out if appropriate. 250 Requested file action okay, completed. 257 "PATHNAME" created. 500 error means: 500 Syntax error, command unrecognized. This may include errors such as command line too long. Copyright © 2001 GlobalSCAPE Inc. [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| John Kitchen 2002-11-06 13:55:26 | quote: It is easy. Take the one that got there first. If the duplication is caused by collusion, it doesn't matter who gets whacked, they are both guilty. If it is stolen, then it is more probable that the first one in came from the computer that crunched it, unless it was stolen (and deleted) off the FTP site before you processed it. (That loophole MUST be closed soon!) At least you MUST quantify the cross-user duplication problem, so you (and we) know the magnitude of what we are dealing with. If it is small, then we can feel good, and get it fixed soon. If it is big, then it must be fixed sooner. But get the facts out on the table. The cheaters who were kicked out of seti@home are more likely to look for another home to go to, and we don't need them here. |
| [Muon.FG]7F4 2002-11-06 13:59:56 | What's going on here? When I uploaded my results at morning I had: 1`821 results with 943`200`860 Particles (or something like that) that's right I guess then I see in the stats created around 17:20 I've over 2200 results with 1,15 billion particles and appear with 396 repeated results in your log file without sending a result since morning. I did __not__ send it twice, so where is it come from? Did your script insert it twice? but when, why with the time shift? BTW: stats now seems to be, ok! But to be marked as a cheater, that hurts  |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 14:19:28 | I have same problem... It's very strange where are my points  But I think you have the same problem now with the ftp..? I don't know what's the problem... Maybe a strange command because the permissions yesterday? |
| pvs 2002-11-06 14:43:27 | Checking the whole DB for duplicate results is nonsense! I hav only 4 Boxes crunching Muon, last check i had 1.7xx% doubles this time I have 0.6% doubles. Thats not because I sent the same result a second time, its becaus two of my Boxes have computed the same result. How many doubles you expect in the whole database?? Most of these results are computed without cheating!! So for me, it is O.K. to lose between 1 and 3% of my correct computed results to stop cheaters, but i don't want to lose something like 25% of my results. As said in another thread, only thing I know to prevent cheating is to calculate a checksumm by a oneway encryption, using the username and some data of the result. |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 15:01:52 | Sheesh...451 Transfer aborted. Broken pipe 425 Can't build data connection: Cannot assign requested address "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 15:22:43 | I think perhaps the thing is just plain running out of addresses. Especially with people writing their own programs to call FTP, there's no garauntee that there isn't something somewhere creating zillions of sessions. For some reason I get more errors with an FTP script than I do issuing the commands manually, although I still get errors manually. I'll get what I can off the server manually, and update the results once per day from now on. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 15:27:49 | Hey do you think this could be fixed if I pushed on with the "distributed FTP server" idea from this thread? "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-06 15:30:13 | in which language do you program it. CGI??? We programmed our proxy in php and we check every 30 seconds for new points and it turns normally. No ftp problems. [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 15:42:56 | The server is just the default FTP server that came with my website. At the client end, an FTP script is started to put the file on the server. Here, I use an FTP script to download the files from the server, and then delete them. I was considering using PHP for uploads (as it can be more secure), but I don't know how to automate an HTTP POST from the user's computer. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 15:56:27 | I'll explain how we flush our points... We rewrited a kind of manualsend. First the program take a look of there is a results.txt when it is, it connects to my computer and ftp the results to my computer. Then the results are in D:\proxy a script I writed checks of there are files are in D:\proxy when it is, he puts them in db and repalce files from D:\proxy to D:\proxy\backup. The reason my proxy is save, is because the account where are the results are sent with is only writing... Even no LIST option. But it's strange your stats script doesn't work, because manually you can cut and paste the files? |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-06 16:09:10 | our client is php based now. after thinking and trying one day we found a way to send points through php. it is opensource so download the files and see by yourself how we do it. take a look at: send.bat and proxy.php files you needs php4ts.dll and proxy.exe for running. download [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 16:13:18 | Manually I can cut and paste files but that would take AGES. About 1 in 3 files the server has a problem with, so a multiple-get always fails eventually at some random point. I can't do it exactly the way you have because I only have 500MB of website space: I need to download the results to my hard-disk which is a cheaper form of storage. I think the first priority now has to be to figure out this odd FTP server intermittent bug. Security I can look at later, unless of course the bug is because someone is hacking around with the FTP server, in which case I'd want to change the results-submission system completely (no FTP). "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 16:18:32 | I could give you a save FTP server, so you get a dir from me, where users can place there files but only writing permissions.. And another account for you so you can read the files out... But the problem is that the login for the FTP is coded in the client... |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-06 16:24:34 | and running a own server? is not difficult. All the software is free. You only need a good internet upload. [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 16:25:01 | Yeah if you go over here you'll see I was planning on actually distributing the server, but I wasn't planning on having to do it this early on. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 16:33:38 | Okay that's most easy way to solve your problems... You set up server and let the client flush to your computer and you don't need another account which can read becasue you can do what you want on your own harddisk.. It's very easy... Making proxy server we did in two days or something like that.. This is our 'Control Panel', http://scriptdev.homeip.net/proxy.htm The left counter is looking for new results on the ftp server.. The counter in the middle sends every 10 minutes results to you if we have new results. And the most right is more for fun.. It refreshes the stats every 5 minutes. |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-06 16:33:58 | If you ever wanted to see our team proxy php code. Mail me at adewidt@xs4all.nl. I can send you the whole source. And good luck  [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-06 16:51:16 | quote: My computer isn't always on (only a minor problem as Muon1 would just retry sending later), and it also doesn't have a fixed IP address. This would make it rather difficult to send results directly here. One way might be to set up a DNS entry for this computer, but I don't know how to do that. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Black-X 2002-11-06 17:03:18 | I have dynamic ip and using a free DNS program that gives scriptdev.homeip.net it's very easy to use but you have to be online always... |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-07 00:48:00 | Here can you get programs and account is you have a dynamic-ip. http://www.dyndns.org/ Black-x works with this program and it works fine. I never see problems. Setting up is only a bit difficult. [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| [DPC]Scorpion 2002-11-07 03:33:47 | i also used a tool which updates my dyndns automaticly so no bothering of ost registration etc etc if you need any help just ring DPC   |
| DukeBox 2002-11-07 04:42:59 | It's possible to provide a 'round robin' structure for several public ftp's. And one 'main' account, or you collect all the public ftp accounts. In that way it's possible to distribute the network load and 'costs' cause it's possible to use cable/xDSL accounts. Even a roundrobin structure PER continent is possible (usa, europe etc). I'm willing to offer my dns servers (wich you can mannage) and even a ftp account.. |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-07 05:48:09 | As I said on another thread I've already registered muon.serveftp.org with DynDNS, now it's just a question of persuading this college network that I can run a server. Alternatively I could do an unplanned modification to v4.22 and add the multi-FTP-server capability to it now. Which do you think? I suppose if I put the multi-FTP thing in now, I can do it with my local FTP and add extra ones to the list as necessary. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Black-X 2002-11-07 06:30:16 | You have now DynDNS? So you are now having your own server? Then I think it must be possible to make the only writing permission... And another question with the dupes check we have lost too much points... So I will send al my results that could be lost to you When I've done I will tel to you so you can do the dupe check on account Clan_Delft only... |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-07 07:11:43 | quote: Well apparently not, or at least this is not one of the obvious options when I set up an FTP server here. This is a Windows machine not Linux and I'm running the free version of the "Sambar" server. They only give "no access", "read" and "read/write" as permissions. It doesn't matter though because I can do what you did and have a task running here that checks for new files every 0.1 seconds and moves them across to some private directories. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-07 07:22:53 | use the next free ftp server : guildftpd easy to set up and you can say which permissions an account have. http://www.guildftpd.com/download.php i place some screenshots of my ftp server so you can see how i configure it. wait a few minutes... [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-07 07:28:14 | http://adw.xs4all.nl/ftp/ here are a few pictures edit: create rights is not needed! and try to delete some files from: roxy@adw.xs4all.nl" TARGET=_blank>ftp://proxy  roxy@adw.xs4all.nlyou will see its not possible and php can write files with this ftp account [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| pvs 2002-11-07 08:03:48 | How do you do the upload? Someone has to go to your website? and then give the file to the script? That would be something like a downgrade... I think stephens FTP had a problem with the large amount of files (i downloaded something between 315 - 320) Peter |
| Black-X 2002-11-07 08:04:47 | We have writed our own version of a program like manualsend.exe |
| Black-X 2002-11-07 08:05:56 | But there's this hour again no statsrun?? |
| pvs 2002-11-07 08:12:04 | thats what stephen announced. he said he do not trust the server |
| [DPC]Clan_Delft Alex 2002-11-07 08:21:38 | yes and the ftp folder is not readable but only write able. it is fully php based and runs from a .bat file. the only thing our program do is reading a .ini file with your name and team and create a file name and send the files to our server with this name. and our server generates some stats http://scriptdev.homeip.net/reader.php our ftp client is very stupid and do nothing else as sending your results.txt but it works perfect. nobody reported a bug or some strange things. and all made in one day  edit: at this moment we only supported our own team. But later maybe more teams can use our proxy. First testing the script. [DPC]Clan Delft the team with a own proxy |
| Black-X 2002-11-07 08:22:31 | Okay so we have to wait for newer version? 4.22 with other ftp built in? |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-07 11:29:12 | OK, that GuildFTP server is a lot better than Sambar's scrutney attempt at an FTP server. I now have that set up correctly to receive incoming data. My request for running services on this network is in the process of being approved - some time soon I ought to be able to give access to outside users. I think I'll release a new ManualSend.exe that sends to my server when it's up. I'll still try my best to retrieve what goes on the other one. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| Black-X 2002-11-07 11:50:50 | Okay if you have your new ftp ready please can you mail (ralph@heetik.nl) or post the server and login, user and pass? Then Clan_Delft will flush again we have now waiting 305.345.569 points... |
| DukeBox 2002-11-07 14:50:20 | One question, is you remove the dupes, wil the total 'results' count be adjusted or only the points ? |
| Stephen Brooks 2002-11-07 18:34:08 | Both get adjusted. "As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline" |
| BrettJB 2002-11-07 18:52:09 | Hi Stephen, If you do get your own setup going, I suggest actually using two directories: Incoming and Pub. Set incoming to write only (no read) for the muon1 user (or heck, allow anonymous transfers) This is where everyone will blind-drop their results. As an administrator, you'll naturally have full access to this directory Pub should hold the signal.dat and anything else you need to go down to the client (possible future self-updates go here). This directory should be read only for muon1 (no writes). This should make cheating a bit more problematic, and also not force you to scan the directory every few seconds for new results. Unfortunately, this setup requires a code tweak, but should be relatively straightforward (and you're almost ready to release the new version, right?) --Brett [This message was edited by BrettJB on 2002-Nov-08 at 3:25.] |
| prokaryote 2002-11-08 00:00:16 | Hi BrettJB, I noticed that you're a fellow Coloradoan. Also noticed that you work in the Bioinformatics field. I've got a couple of questions regarding this area if you wouldn't mind a PM. Thanks, prok www.ninjamicros.com mathematical projects |
