stephenbrooks.orgForumOtherBrowser WarsThe real war: Opera VS Mozilla. Get the hell out of here you IE using morons
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moz
2002-11-19 17:10:27
Who the hell actually uses IE then comes here to play and try to win?  Obiously you morons have either been in a serious accident recently or have the intelligence of a pile of horse faeces.  Hey, you know what?  Go ahead and use IE, I hope your computers get hacked into and you die and burn in hell.

[This message was edited by Stephen Brooks on 2002-Nov-20 at 3:17.]
moz
2002-11-19 17:25:53
I will officially announce on this forum that I, moz, will assasinate Bill Gates.  I will do it within 6 months.  You have at most, 6 months to live Bill Gates.  You will die and then rot in the pits of hell.  You will.  It's a fact.  You will burn there for eternity for being a pig.  Thank you.
eszett
2002-11-19 19:14:19
i am a loyal opera user (i'm one of those guys using opera 7, it's still a beta so it's kinda slow and i can't keep up with all you guys), and although i do think you mozilla users are at least socialists (there are some of you that are liberal communists), i really like the way you guys think, apart from it sometimes being radical.

anyways, i like how you guys always are standing up for mozilla, almost patriotically, and you have such strong opinions.  so anyways, assassination is a bit too far.  maybe ransom, but i surely do know this thread will be locked for sure.  cut down on the language.  far all you know, good ol' evil bill may be reading your post as i type this one up... *looks out*

but yes, i must say that ie is out there just to take from others, claim it theirs, and not contribute anything to the public domain, except maybe somebody to egg on wink
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-19 19:21:15
Actually there was less bad language in those two posts than you'd imagine given the attitude of the poster...


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
sgamer
2002-11-19 19:29:21
i just smoked some mozilla user hardcore in about 9 out of 10 games we were playing...damn.  if you see a galeon player who plays well and acts practically robotic with quick response to your drops, it could be me.  but if he sucks...uhhh....its not me wink

= OWNAGE
eszett
2002-11-19 19:38:42
i am quite good too.  but i've been lagging awhile because of my recent switch to opera 7b1. as it's still a beta, it's not the most ept browser out there, but i've won almost all the games for the new opera 7 team.  i'm sure it will fluctuate once the final is released.  spread the love big grin

if i ever get linux to work, i may join galeon's recruits.  aw heck, let's just represent the dead MOSAIC!!!!!!

e: just a random tidbit...

according to this site, bill gates has already been shot by a sniper in los angeles... *suspicious*
sgamer
2002-11-19 19:52:50
mosaic!  spryweb!  hahaha, i'd laugh my ass off if someone used those, and it got its own icon

= OWNAGE
eszett
2002-11-19 20:10:24
well if stephen is willing to try it out, i've got the icon right here.  big grin

actually, just a minute, lemme change my avatar big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin
---------------
opera seven b1 is quite sad at the moment.  takes three seconds just to reload a board.  frown looks like i won't be rep'ing it til the final.
eszett
2002-11-19 20:30:07
you may open your eyes now smile

[color=green]fear me, i'm on a mosaic streak[/color]
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-19 20:33:59
Argh but did you have to change your NAME at the same time?  That's really confusing.  I've now forgotten what you were called originally.

I'm not adding obsolete browsers to the game.  (Netscape was a close call razz ).


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
sgamer
2002-11-19 20:50:28
lol, nice!

= OWNAGE
moz
2002-11-19 22:16:15
Time to kick some IE ass!!!  Feel the power!! 

!!!!!!!!!!!  -={ M O Z I L L A }=- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message was edited by Thomas King on 2002-Nov-20 at 8:25.]
Tom King
2002-11-20 00:30:39
I use IE.  I'm also a moderator.  I also don't like your attitude, much.  For a start, please keep the language reasonable.  It's not much to ask, and anyway, bad language makes it very unlikley that you'll be taken seriously.

I also find it slightly odd that someone so violently anti-microsoft uses windows, anyway.  That's all I'm going to say, I don't want to start another platform war because they bore me (and everyone else with an IQ greater than that of a glass of water) to tears.
eszett
2002-11-20 13:26:09
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen Brooks:
Argh but did you have to change your NAME at the same time?  That's really confusing.  I've now forgotten what you were called originally.


just for your information, i was called Æ. but times change, and i just felt like changing it.  now i can't even use opera 7 (crashes when i load it up), and am using the wonderful opera 6.05 to type this up.

[color=green]fear me, i'm on a mosaic streak[/color]
gilbert
2002-11-20 13:30:43
quote:
Originally posted by jyvasaa:
now i can't even use opera 7 (crashes when i load it up), and am using the wonderful opera 6.05 to type this up.



supposedly you can fix this by deleting the acpo folder in your opera 7 directory.
eszett
2002-11-20 13:38:19
mighty strange... i don't even have an acpo dir.  i know it's the folder with the ads.  if i can get mosaic to work, i'll try using it.  wink

e: whoa yikes that's scary.  this is the first i've actually used mosaic (aside from the natural curiosity to check out recently downloaded items, got it a while back) and even google looks scary.  i can't access stephen's site with it, keeps generating an error frown
[color=green]fear me, i'm on a mosaic streak[/color]
moz
2002-11-20 16:03:18
quote:
I use IE.  I'm also a moderator.  I also don't like your attitude, much.  For a start, please keep the language reasonable.  It's not much to ask, and anyway, bad language makes it very unlikley that you'll be taken seriously. 


You're a moderator and you use IE?  I hope your computer gets hacked into, seriosly.  Anyone who knows anything about computers doesn't use IE because of the many holes and bugs which are unattended to until those Visual Basic Programmers at microsoft feel like fixing it.  I use Windows only for games and sometimes internet.  Also, your time is running out Bill, {bad spelling removed} pig... and Moderator, as for language... parrots to you.

[This message was edited by Stephen Brooks on 2002-Nov-21 at 0:52.]
moz
2002-11-20 16:05:10
Just the other day I read about a hole in Ie that let's someone take control of your hard drive.  {indecent expression of desire for Tom King removed}

[This message was edited by Stephen Brooks on 2002-Nov-21 at 0:53.]
eszett
2002-11-20 16:13:24
but dude, you haven't even spelled mosaic right.  you're missing three letters and the s is a zed!  what's up with that?  frown



wink


anyways, i wondered because all the ie and opera versions are split up, there would be a civil war?  i just won two against some opera 7 chap.  which brings me to my point: once mozilla 2 comes out, let us separate it from mozilla one.

lastly, the obsolete be's wonderfull netpositive browser deserves some recognition imo.  i've been at winamp forums too long razz someday i'll make my own browser, and i will call it da vinci.  smile

[color=green]fear me, i'm on a mosaic streak[/color]
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-20 16:54:54
quote:
Originally posted by jyvasaa:
once mozilla 2 comes out, let us separate it from mozilla one.


I'll do that.  They better come up with a decent 3D-rendered letter "2" for me to rescale and use in my logo though.


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
Tom King
2002-11-20 23:42:56
quote:
Originally posted by moz:

You're a moderator and you use IE?  I hope your computer gets hacked into, seriosly.  Anyone who knows anything about computers doesn't use IE because of the many holes and bugs which are unattended to until those Visual Basic Programmers at microsoft feel like fixing it.  I use Windows only for games and sometimes internet.  Also, your time is running out Bill, {bad spelling removed} pig... and Moderator, as for language... parrots to you.




Gosh darn, I plumb didn't realise that.  So this security hole is present in all versions of IE, and isn't fixed by any update?  Shucks.  Oh well, at least I have a personal firewall and a university firewall to sit behind. 

Just out of curiosity, er, what other operating systems do you use then?
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-21 05:22:53
"I use Windows only for games and sometimes internet."

Well uh... What makes using Windows "sometimes" on the internet any more secure than using IE?


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
Kwil
2002-11-21 12:05:31
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas King:
Gosh darn, I plumb didn't realise that.  So this security hole is present in all versions of IE, and isn't fixed by any update?  Shucks.  Oh well, at least I have a personal firewall and a university firewall to sit behind. 



Had this been posted a day earlier, and I would have said that that's exactly the problem.  Fortunately for you, Microsoft released a patch for the latest hole found last night.  That the exploit was known for nearly two months, and that executable code had been publically available for three days prior to the patch release, I won't get into.

However, I will say that for this latest hole, your firewalls would have made no difference.

I will also say that if you haven't patched IE in the last two days, do so now. Having someone being able to reformat your hard drive from clicking on a web-link strikes me as unfun.
gilbert
2002-11-21 12:28:08
quote:
Originally posted by Kwil:
I will also say that if you haven't patched IE in the last two days, do so _now_.


Or switch to Opera or Mozilla.  Don't let Opera's banner ad stop you.  The banner ad is much less intrusive than all the popups which Opera can block.  You may want to stick with O6 for now, since O7 is buggy.
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-21 12:39:22
quote:
Originally posted by gilbert:
Or switch to Opera or Mozilla.  Don't let Opera's banner ad stop you.  The banner ad is much less intrusive than all the popups which Opera can block.


LOL, I just protest by spending as little time as I can on sites that have banners or popups.


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
gilbert
2002-11-21 12:43:08
Actually, there is a free program called proxomitron which can block both banner ads and popups and works with any browser.

Yes, it is more dangerous to use IE than another browser on Windows.  Other browsers aren't as tightly integrated with the system and are less frequently targeted because fewer people use them.

[This message was edited by gilbert on 2002-Nov-21 at 20:51.]
Tom King
2002-11-21 13:30:05
I was pretty sure that the weblink hole was a vunerability of windows XP only, as I patched my XP machine against it a while ago.
gilbert
2002-11-21 13:35:56
According to this link: http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/20050.html ,
M$ has not yet fixed the flaw.
Tom King
2002-11-21 13:59:04
I didnt use a Microsoft patch, I used a program from GRC.com
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-21 14:10:20
quote:
Originally posted by gilbert:
Actually, there is a free program called proxomitron which can block both banner ads and popups and works with any browser.

Yeah but even better would be if the webmasters took the damn things off the sites in the first place and found a way of doing buisness that didn't involve endless hammers.  I reckon sites with too many banners or any ad-popups don't really deserve much traffic unless they have some sort of good excuse that I haven't thought of yet.
quote:
Yes, it is more dangerous to use IE than another browser on Windows.  Other browsers aren't as tightly integrated with the system

That's probably true.  I wasn't ever really one to worry about stuff like that though.
quote:
and are less frequently targeted because fewer people use them.

So if everyone uses Opera, then it gets targeted and we're effectively back where we started?  I suppose as new things come out the most-popular browser is going to always take the flak from security issues, just as a matter of probability, while the others just quietly check that they've not got that hole, which they probably won't because being programmed by different people, they'll have a whole DIFFERENT set of holes big grin

The guy from GRC.com probably wears a tinfoil hat to stop people from hacking into his brain.


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
Kwil
2002-11-21 14:40:29
Thomas: The hole fixer from GRC (if it's the one I'm thinking about) is for Windows Plug'n'Play service.  No known exploits of it have yet been developed, it's still considered theoretical.

The hole I'm speaking about using MDAC is a different hole entirely.  You can find more information about it here. This also contains information on the patch, and alternatives should you choose to not want to use the patch.  (Basically disable all scripting in IE).

As the patch is brand new (less than 24 hours old as I write this), it probably came out after Kieth Regan's story was submitted to the News Factor place that gilbert links above.

The end result is still the same.  Patch or switch if you want to be safe.
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-21 16:13:35
YES!!  So I'm not the only person in the world who thinks that guy is a moron big grin
Tom King
2002-11-21 23:41:45
quote:
Originally posted by Kwil:
Thomas: The hole fixer from GRC (if it's the one I'm thinking about) is for Windows Plug'n'Play service.  No known exploits of it have yet been developed, it's still considered theoretical.

The hole I'm speaking about using MDAC is a different hole entirely.  You can find more information about it http://www.jmu.edu/computing/security/info/iehot.shtml This also contains information on the patch, and alternatives should you choose to not want to use the patch.  (Basically disable all scripting in IE).

As the patch is brand new (less than 24 hours old as I write this), it probably came out after Kieth Regan's story was submitted to the News Factor place that gilbert links above.

The end result is still the same.  Patch or switch if you want to be safe.




Shucks, aren't I a dummy.  I thought the "Universal Plug and Play" patch fixed the uPNP problem, while the "XPdite" patch "Quickly and easily replaced the dangerous Windows XP file that facilitates malicious deletion of entire file directories". This may or may not be what you're talking about.

I know I'm not very good at web security, why should I be, I'm not interested in it, I'm a chemistry student.  But please don't talk down to me.  I'm quite prepared to admit to being wrong about something, but I'm not a total retard.
Tom King
2002-11-21 23:49:07
And yes, that page is interesting reading.  I'm not going to lay down like some of my friends and say "GRC IS GODLIKE" because, well, duh.  I simply like it by experimentation.  ShieldsUp worked for me.  More I can't say because I don't know anything about the relevant technologies.  He may very well be a fraud.  (and the moon landing may very well have been faked).  The point, I suppose, is that honestly, I don't care.
Kwil
2002-11-22 02:12:41
I wasn't trying to be condescending at all.  From your message, it simply sounds like you haven't actually looked at the site I linked or the MS site recently for the patch for this most recent hole, and I'm concerned.

The GRC stuff is fine (IMO) for what it does, and I'm not trying to argue this.  What I'm saying is that what you've grabbed from GRC most likely does not cover the means this latest exploit uses.

If I'm wrong about you recently updating via MS, fine.  If I'm not though, please do yourself the favor of applying the patch that MS has supplied, because otherwise, you're leaving your computer completely open to having the hard drive wiped whenever you browse with IE on untrusted sites.
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-22 05:11:49
> I've applied the patch myself.
> Tom has a busy life and does not necessarily have the time to read every page that someone links to from this board.
> He also has Windows XP, which makes updating components of Windows fairly straightforward.  He may well have already patched his system (in fact I think he said once he's got it to do it automatically) but hasn't told you.


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
Tom King
2002-11-22 05:21:57
Actually, I don't have XP on this thing, its 2k. I really shouldn't post stuff in the mornings, I'm always irritable (having to get up at 7.00am).  Sorry, its just that you said "The hole fixer you got is only for plug and play fixing". There is a uPNP fixer which I have, but theres also a scripting fixer which I also have.  I did look at the pages, yes, but probably missed the important stuff.  Anyway, SJB's right, it DOES update itself automatically.
Stephen Brooks
2002-11-22 06:33:36
One threat is downloading other people's software.  In other words, I could put a "fdisk" command in all my software here and nothing would stop people from downloading and running it.  I tend to think we need a system whereby each program acts as a different "user" dependent on the directory it is installed into, so by default, software installed to one directory only has permissions to read/write things in that directory.  Internet upload rights would also be granted optionally (during installation, a program would say "this software needs the following extra permissions to run correctly: upload files from directory X, access files in directory Y" etc.).

So right now, a very large amount of "security" on the web is still done by trust: you simply trust that the programmer has not uploaded something that could be dangerous.  And this works surprisingly well.  So (1) we need a better security system like the one above and (2) for now, seeing as I can spend years using my computer online with NO SECURITY STUFF WHATSOEVER installed, the threat can't be too huge.


"As every 11-year-old kid knows, if you concentrate enough Van-der-Graff generators and expensive special effects in one place, you create a spiral space-time whirly thing, AND an interesting plotline"
hoshie
2003-01-24 19:34:52
quote:
Originally posted by moz:
Who the hell actually uses IE then comes here to play and try to win?  Obiously you morons have either been in a serious accident recently or have the intelligence of a pile of horse faeces.  Hey, you know what?  Go ahead and use IE, I hope your computers get hacked into and you die and burn in hell.

[This message was edited by Stephen Brooks on 2002-Nov-20 at 3:17.]


"moz", your general attuide makes me sick!  words like yours are are embrassment to the Community.  Why can't we, in the mozilla community, accept IE and co-exist with it?

That's A Lie, Your Honor!
kpu
2003-01-27 18:31:24
Blatant linux plug: chroot and sandboxes come to mind for keeping applications in their directories.
zoom314
2003-08-11 12:04:25
Me I use K-Meleon Version 0.7.1 : Build 2 : Moz 07-22-2003 right now, At least until version 0.8 comes out and Security isn't a real problem, Sure Its browser engine is Gecko based, But then It's a win32 application and not a compromise like Mozilla or Firebird (x86 and PPC Compatible source code).  And It's more compatible than Opera 6.x or 7.x ever was from My experience and I won't touch Opera anymore, Nor would I even buy It, I'd just Delete It.  Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz + Razz
james
2004-07-12 02:11:30
Firefox 'er on linux here ...

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